tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post7811547854153177524..comments2023-10-26T00:08:26.205+01:00Comments on The Boiling Frog: Brexit: Questions To AnswerTheBoilingFroghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00791961503315586243noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post-51372666320395832942014-04-24T23:56:26.591+01:002014-04-24T23:56:26.591+01:00...I was born into the then EEC (the UK joined 18 ... <i>...I was born into the then EEC (the UK joined 18 months earlier) so I don't have direct experience of the lies that took us in - I can only observe it from a generation apart....</i><br /><br />I am old enough to remember the treaty of accession. At the time there was very little actually talked about it that I can remember. The establishment view, and hence the view the BBC presented was that it was 'just a trade treaty and nothing to do with sovereignty at all'.<br /><br />Anyone who pointed out that it seemed to be more than that was occasionally reported, but studiously ignored thereafter on the grounds that this was 'not what society thought' - much the same as climate change today.<br /><br />When the vote arrived later I was old enough to take more of an interest, and the BBC had to report the positions - there were establishment figures in both the pro and anti camps.<br /><br />The Anti camp pointed out that the treaty included the words 'ever closer political union'. This seemed to be an important point to me, but the pro camp simply ignored it, and refused to address the issue. Occasionally, if a direct question was asked, it would be brushed aside with words such as "That may be what the words say, but that's not what they mean...political union is not on the cards...". This technique was similar to the technique used today to suspend our judicial freedoms - "The law may say that anyone can be imprisoned on suspicion, but it will only be used against terrorists...". <br /><br />The anti camp made a strong play of the idea that Britain would be 'Left Behind' if they refused to join. At that time Britain was still a major world power with strong Empire/Commonwealth connections , and the idea that we would be 'left behind' by France or Germany was laughable. <br /><br />In the end the people voted the way they were told to...though I still wonder about some of those ballot boxes...<br /> Dodgy Geezernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post-78123709893613747092014-04-18T21:08:56.670+01:002014-04-18T21:08:56.670+01:00No, no you misunderstand...it was a cunning plan t...No, no you misunderstand...it was a cunning plan to expose another europhile think-tank disguised as a eurosceptic one :-)TheBoilingFroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00791961503315586243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post-81907251428903343072014-04-18T21:03:01.697+01:002014-04-18T21:03:01.697+01:00'what we [, ... ,] expected was for it to be a...'what we [, ... ,] expected was for it to be a fair competition'<br /><br />I don't normally expect such naivety here or chez Richard North!<br /><br /> Still, I suppose it's the only thing that keeps us sceptics [EU, climate change, 'democracy', etc ] going - though personally I now go forward with, at best, a marked limpIan Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post-71222663404603139232014-04-16T20:26:46.583+01:002014-04-16T20:26:46.583+01:00We see increasingly glaring examples of bias in al...We see increasingly glaring examples of bias in all things EU - from MSM/BBC to Brexit competitions and 'polls'.<br />If the evidence is as I suggest then it may be time to rethink the ACTUAL public perception of the EU in terms of in/out and start to go with our 'feelings' rather than on published (rigged?) polls on the subject.<br />Worries that a referendum will be 'too close to call' may be a figment of manipulation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post-25667393822584826152014-04-16T09:37:46.145+01:002014-04-16T09:37:46.145+01:00Aye, but given that the French made the thing they...Aye, but given that the French made the thing they have an inbuilt advantage... :-)TheBoilingFroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00791961503315586243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post-44032132660158313872014-04-16T01:02:08.289+01:002014-04-16T01:02:08.289+01:00I don't see the logic here. The EFTA + bilate...I don't see the logic here. The EFTA + bilaterals option is probably politically unattainable and, as it stands, is known to be unacceptable to the EU. None of the finalists actually acknowledge the problems with this option, even though they are recorded in published papers, and therefore do not argue their case.<br /><br />Other submissions, however, do argue the pitfalls, and make cogent arguments as to why the EFTA-only options should not be accepted. Thus, we have a situation where the judges apparently rejected those arguments and accepted an unargued case put by six of the finalists, all of whom became prize winners.<br /><br />Thus, six, identical "impossible" options were accepted in preference to other options which may or may not have been workable ... but you are never allowed to see them. <br /><br />But before you go any further, you ought to read this ...<br /><br />http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/BrexitPamphlet001.pdf<br /> Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02561483930556493363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post-52378554772135647682014-04-15T22:25:08.245+01:002014-04-15T22:25:08.245+01:00Sorry, that was meant to say along the same lines ...Sorry, that was meant to say along the same lines as the EFTA members in the EEA.<br /><br />/openinglyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6693950082152211516.post-49603394701624508742014-04-15T22:22:10.361+01:002014-04-15T22:22:10.361+01:00The likely reason for why the six finalists were E...The likely reason for why the six finalists were EFTA entries is because it is in all probability the only kind of agreement the EU would accept with the UK. Let's not forget that the reason the Swiss got such a sweet deal with their bilateral agreements was because the EU was expecting a future Swiss referendum to vote 'yes'. After all, the referendum to join the EU was only lost 49.7 to 50.3. A series of bilateral deals that would not be prejudicial to the Swiss was seen as, effectively, a way to create a transition period until what was considered to be the inevitable 'yes' vote. Given the UK is likely *leaving* the EU, the EU has no incentive to offer the UK anything more than what it would get under the EFTA.<br /><br />/openinglyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com