The Boiling Frog: Government By Fax? EEA Member Iceland Says No

Monday, 28 January 2013

Government By Fax? EEA Member Iceland Says No

Contrary to the consistently clear... naked... lie from David Cameron (and he is aware his assertion is untrue) that Norway - and thus other EEA members - have "no say", Iceland demonstrates yet again that membership of the EEA does in fact mean having a say in Single Market rules.

As documented on this blog recently Iceland has been involved with one of biggest rejections of the EU there has ever been by an EEA member, one which centred around two legal arguments, over the collapse of Icesave. This has been an ongoing legal battle until the judgement today.

The Telegragh reports:

After the collapse four years ago of Iceland's top lenders during the credit crunch, the British and Dutch governments stepped in to repay savers in the online "Icesave" account run by Landsbanki and wanted Iceland to pay them back directly.

Iceland did not comply, triggering a row between the governments and potentially complicating the island's bid to join the European Union.

But the court of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) ruled that Iceland did not break depositor protection laws by refusing to return the money.

In other words the EU said "you have 20 seconds to comply", Iceland, with a population of only around 313,000, said with success:

"no"

The assertion that Norway et al is governed by fax is looking more ridiculous by the day. I wonder if the Telegraph editorial team will even take note of its own report...?

Iceland says no, files its fax in the bin, and tells EU member states that it does not comply...

6 comments:

Jim28 January 2013 at 19:06
it is driving me around the bend that the media and politicians are still trying to spread the "government by fax line".

Its almost as though they think if they repeat it often enough, it will happen. A little like a Scottish idiot who endlessly told himself he had ended boom and bust, and ended up believing it.

We need to find a platform to break through these lies, other wise the same thing will happen and we are stuck again
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TheBoilingFrog28 January 2013 at 19:28
@Jim It does make one despair I completely agree...

That's why I try to keep going - trying to keep repeating the truth often enough etc sadly it sometimes turns into a war of attrition...which is not good for one's mental health.
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Edward Spalton29 January 2013 at 19:12
Thanks to this article,TBF, I have a knock out punch for my sixth form debates when the Dark Side raises this point -as they surely will.

That they keep repeating the phrase shows that they have not had an original idea since it was coined (around 1994 I think, when faxes were quite common)

It is just the same with "3 million jobs" although the author of the report which they claimed in support described that assertion as "pure Goebbels" back in 2000.

Going a little further back they repeated over and over again that those opposed to the EU were simply nasty people who hated foreigners.

So it is truly the Goebbels technique of the oft-repeated lie and their spin doctors must be telling them that it is effective- thanks to brain-dead reporting by the MSM.
Edward
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James Higham29 January 2013 at 19:46
Iceland have always had the cojones. I know a lady from there and she reports it was a foregone conclusion. I think they just don't understand the concept of consequences.
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bewaretheshark30 January 2013 at 07:34
I assumed the the court went in favour of Iceland as the EU is desperate to sign them up as a member. They have given huge amounts of money to Iceland by way of bribes.
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Weekend Yachtsman31 January 2013 at 13:53
"EU is desperate to sign them up as a member"

Indeed they are. And the Icelandic political class would love to do it, too.

Fortunately so far, the people have been too sensible.

It remains to be seen whether they will be ignored and over-ridden just like all the other peoples.
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EU quotes

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(George Ball Under-Secretary of State for JFK 1961)

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(Romano Prodi, 13 April 1999)

"Let's imagine Europe is a football club and you join, but once you're in it you can't say let's play rugby". (French foreign minister Laurent Fabius)

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(Chartists 1836)

"The [Lisbon Treaty] is indeed a tidying -up exercise, it sweeps the rest of our sovereignty under the Brussels carpet".
(Lord Pearson)

"The Government’s guiding principle was...to swallow the lot and swallow it now."
(Sir Con O’Neill, the British diplomat who led the UK’s negotiations for EEC membership under Heath)

"I look forward to the day when the Westminster Parliament is just a council chamber in Europe."
(Kenneth Clarke, Conservative Chancellor in International Currency Review Vol 23 No 4 1996)

"The EU is the old Soviet Union dressed in Western clothes"
(President Gorbachev)

"Europe's power is easy to miss. Like an 'invisible hand', it operates through the shell of traditional political structures. The British House of Commons, British law courts, and British civil servants are still here, but they have all become agents of the European Union implementing European law. This is no accident."
(Mark Leonard co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, the first pan-European think tank)

"We need to build a United States of Europe with the [EU] Commission as government".
(Viviane Reding, EU Commissioner 2014)

"A supranational union is a multinational political union where power is delegated to an authority by member states".
(Wikipedia)

“A coup d’état by a political class who did not believe in popular sovereignty”.
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(Jean Monnet, Father of EU')

"EU Parliament is incredibly responsive to lobbying institutions, but is unresponsive to public opinion".
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"This Treaty marks a new stage in the process of creating an ever closer union..."
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"This Treaty marks a new stage in the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe".
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"Never out on principle; never in on principle [regarding EEC membership]. It depends on the terms and whether it is best for Britain".
(Labour leader Harold Wilson, May 1975)

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"[Norway] held a referendum [on the EU] that went the wrong way"
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"I have read some of [the Lisbon Treaty] but not all of it."
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“They must go on voting until they get it right.”
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"If you go through all the structures and features of this emerging European monster you will notice that it more and more resembles the Soviet Union."
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“I have never understood why public opinion about European ideas should be taken into account at all,”
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“Let’s be clear about this. The rejection of the constitution was a mistake that will have to be corrected.”
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“The 'no' votes were a demand for more Europe, not less.”
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"I don’t want an ‘in or out’ referendum because I don’t think out is in Britain’s interests.”
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(Peter Thorneycroft, former Tory MP)

"[Bailouts are] expressly forbidden in the treaties by the famous no-bailout clause. De facto, we have changed the treaty."
(French Europe minister Pierre Lelouche)

"The transfer by the States from their domestic legal system to the Community legal system of the rights and obligations arising under the Treaty carries with it a permanent limitation of their sovereign rights... against which a subsequent act incompatible with the concept of the Community cannot prevail"
(ECJ Case 6/64)

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"The European Parliament is a caucusing body that is incredibly responsive to lobbying institutions, but it is completely unresponsive to public opinion."
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(Roman Herzog, German president, 1996)

"The European system of supranationality comes at the cost of democracy."
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"The [EU] Council of Ministers will have far more power over the budgets of member states than the federal government in the United States has over the budget of Texas."
(Jean-Claude Trichet, current head of the European Central Bank)

"One must never forget that monetary union, which the two of us were the first to propose more than a decade ago, is ultimately a political project. It aims to give a new impulse to the historic movement toward union of the European states"
(Giscard d’Estaing, who drafted the EU Constitution 1997)

"The process of monetary union goes hand in hand, must go hand in hand, with political integration and ultimately political union. EMU [economic and monetary union] is, and always was meant to be, a stepping stone on the way to a united Europe"
(Wim Duisenberg, first president of the EU Central Bank)

"Once the interlude of [WWI] was over, [countries] all went back to the rules and customs of traditional parliamentary democracies. I felt out of my depth."
(Jean Monnet 'Father of Europe')

"We need to build a United States of Europe with the [EU] Commission as government."
(Viviane Reding, EU Commissioner 2014)

"We had imagined a political 'grand design', a new international order..."
(Jean Monnet 'Father of Europe')

"I like the English style of life. I feel more at home here in London"
(Tintin creator, Belgian born Herge)

"We are not forming coalitions between States, but union among people"
(Jean Monnet, 'Father of Europe')

"The sovereign nations of the past can no longer solve the problems of the present: they cannot ensure their own progress or control their own future. And the Community itself is only a stage on the way to the organised world of tomorrow."
(Jean Monnet, 'Father of Europe')

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(Lady Thatcher, Statecraft)

"There is no question of Britain losing essential national sovereignty”
(Ted Heath)

Euro quotes

"Euro has done more to enforce budgetary discipline in rest of Europe than any number of exhortations from IMF or OECD".
(Nick Clegg, 2002)

"We're happy to give the Greeks anything, just not money".
(German MEP Markus Ferber 2010)

"The Euro has been a rock of stability... Joining the single currency would be a major step".
(Labour MEP, Richard Corbett, 2009)

"The single currency... marks stability and growth and is crucial to high levels of growth and employment".
(Tony Blair 1998)

"Britons will come round to the idea [joining the euro] once they’ve handled euro money".
(Adam Boulton Sunday Times, 2001)

"Staying out of the Euro will mean progressive economic isolation for Britain".
(Peter Mandelson, 2003)

"The European Union must take a decisive step towards a federal economic government, with common fiscal policies and a larger budget, if it is to save the euro".
(Andrew Duff Lib Dem MEP 2011)

"A European currency will lead to member nations transferring their sovereignty over financial and wage policy as well as monetary affairs".
(Hans Tietmeyer, head of the Bundesbank, 1991)

The single currency is the greatest abandonment of sovereignty since the foundation of the European Community: the decision is of an essentially political nature".
(Felipe Gonzalez, a Spanish former PM, 1998)

"The euro area now represents a pole of stability for those countries participating in it by protecting them from speculation and financial turmoil. It is strengthening the internal market and contributing to the maintenance of healthy fundamental figures, fostering sustainable growth".
(European Council conclusions, 2001)

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(Then Greek Finance Minister, Yannis Papantoniou, 1999)

"The reality of the euro has exposed the absurdity of many anti-European scares while increasing the public thirst for information. Public opinion is already changing…as people can see the success of the new currency on the mainland".
(Kenneth Clarke MP, 2002)

"The euro is a great success, and in today’s global economy, the pound is no longer an important currency. If we are not careful, we could become like Iceland in the next financial crisis".
(BT Group Chairman, Sir Michael Rake, 2009)

"I think the eurozone has turned the corner".
(Then French Economy Minister, Christine Lagarde, 29 January 2011)

"I believe that, within the next twelve months, we will have averted contagion and stabilised the eurozone".
(German Finance Minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, 30 December 2011)

"We cannot be members of the single market without being part of the single currency, the euro...In life, fighting for a minority view is sometimes dangerous and painful. But when you know you are right, and when so much of our national prosperity depends on it, we should expect our political leaders to act".
(Virgin Group Chairman, Richard Branson, 2000)

"We are writing to make clear our concerns about the implications for business if the Government rules out membership of the euro for the lifetime of this Parliament. Such a decision would be damaging for British-based businesses, British employees and the British economy as a whole".
(WPP Group CEO, Sir Martin Sorrell, et al., 2003)

"A single currency, introduced at the appropriate time, will reduce costs for businesses that trade or invest across Europe...More investment in growing
businesses means more employment".
(Then BP Chairman, Lord David Simon, 1997)

"Joining the euro would increase our incomes and thus our standard of living...Now the countries of Europe have taken one more step towards making a truly unified market, using only one currency. If again we delay joining, we again risk falling further behind".
(Former Energy Secretary, Chris Huhne, former CBI Director General, Lord Adair Turner, et al., 2002)

"Staying out of the euro will mean progressive economic isolation for Britain. It will mean fewer foreign businesses investing here, fewer good jobs being created and less trade being done with our European partners".
(Former Business Secretary, Lord Peter Mandelson, 2003)

"Britain should join the euro within the next few years in order to enhance British power and influence".
(Centre for European Reform Director, Charles Grant, 2001)

"Joining EMU would offer multiple benefits...The euro would be good for jobs".
(Then TUC Secretary General, John Monks, 2003)

"As time goes on, people will increasingly see that there is a price to be paid for remaining outside the euro".
(Former Labour Party leader, Neil Kinnock, 2002)

"The euro may well come to be regarded in the coming years as part of the answer to saving the City from permanent decline. It was easy to dismiss the fledgling euro as a ‘toilet currency’ before we realised our own economic growth was built on sand".
(Lib Dem leader, Nick Clegg, 2009)

"Obviously joining a currency that everybody in Europe - including soon all the new European Union members - are using, a currency that American and Japanese and overseas businesses understand, has to make sense".
(Then UK Europe Minister, Denis MacShane, 2003)

"The euro, despite gloomy predictions from anti-Europeans, has proved to be a success".
(Former Lib Dem leader, Charles Kennedy, 2002)

"In reality the economic integration between Britain and the Continent is so close, and we have confirmed this because we all belong to the common market, that it can't be good in the long run to stay out of such a cardinal element as the currency union".
(Then German Finance Minister, Hans Eichel, 2002)

"There are no real benefits and some real costs to the UK of monetary independence... it makes sense from a financial stability perspective for the UK to contract out monetary policy to the ECB".
(Citigroup Chief Economist, Willem Buiter, 2007)

"Taking part in EMU would improve policy and performance enough to eliminate many of the strains that sceptics predict would emerge without the safety valve of devaluation".
(BBC Trust Vice Chairman, Diane Coyle OBE, 1997)

"The euro is like a breastplate that will become more and more resistant. The stability of the currencies within its area is without question".
(Then EU Monetary Affairs Commissioner, Yves Thibault de Silguy, 1998)

"The strict rules attached to the euro could emerge as one of the best ways to persuade the markets that we will put Humpty Dumpty back together again, put the public finances in order".
(Lib Dem leader, Nick Clegg, 2009)

"The question of entering the euro is worth a lot more to Britain than the wild anti-federalist fantasies peddled by those who think Britain should have nothing to do with Europe. Nobody of any consequence in Europe wants to create a federal super-state".
(Former Business Secretary, Lord Peter Mandelson, 2003)

The British Government Knew The Consequences In 1971

Foreign and Commonwealth Office 30/1048 - 1971

...the transfer of major executive responsibilities to the bureaucratic Commission in Brussels will exacerbate popular feeling of alienation from government. To counter this feeling, strengthened local and regional democratic processes within the member states and effective Community regional economic and social policies will be essential.

Parliamentary sovereignty will be affected as we have seen. But the need for Parliament to play an increasing (if perhaps more specialised) role may develop. Firstly, although a European Parliament might in the longest term become an effective, directly elected democratic check upon the bureaucracy, this will not be for a long time, and certainly not in the decade to come. In the interval, to minimise the loss of democratic control it will be important that the British Parliamentarians should play an effective role both through the British membership in the European Parliament and through the processes of the British Parliament itself.

Test

Monday, 28 January 2013

Government By Fax? EEA Member Iceland Says No

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